Brad Thorn says the Queensland Reds needed change when he arrived at Ballymore and while he “hated making tough decisions”, the dual World Cup-winner turned coach believes decisive leadership needed to be made to turn the Australian Super Rugby franchise around.
In a wide-ranging discussion on The Roar Rugby Podcast, the head coach opened up on the conversation from his brother that led to him giving rugby a proper crack, how his family experienced first-hand the devastating impact from drugs and the influence it has had on his coaching career, why the Reds needed a cleanout when he arrived to his future at the rich rugby state.
Few people have achieved as much as Thorn in sport.
The New Zealand-born forward won NRL premierships and World Cups in both rugby league and rugby union, but as the Reds prepare for the 2023 Super Rugby season – Thorn’s sixth season in charge – the coach’s place in Australian rugby is a vexed subject.
Despite winning the 2021 Super Rugby AU season, the Reds have struggled in the past two seasons against New Zealand opposition winning just one of 10 matches. It in part explains why the Reds haven’t had as many players represented in the Wallabies as many think they should have.
There are all sorts of reasons why – injury, form, departures of players and unique scheduling – but Thorn, as coaches so often do, has felt the brunt of the criticism and it remains distinctly possible the dual international could step away from the Reds at season’s end.
“I could easily do that, yeah,” Thorn told The Roar.
But where Thorn ends up and what happens next remains a fascinating question and one Australian rugby must consider going forward.
“I’ve done five years, this will be six years,” he said, “I think that will make me the fourth longest serving coach in 140 years, so doesn’t that tell you about coaching. It’s an interesting job.”
Brad Thorn has opened up on his coaching career in a wide-ranging interview on The Roar Rugby podcast. Photo: Albert Perez/Getty Images
The Reds are acutely aware that Thorn is considering his future, but they are also hopeful that he knows the door will never be shut on him whatever decision he makes.
Thorn has never shirked the tough decision.
When he took over from Nick Stiles as head coach, who had inherited a side that had struggled for a few years after Ewen McKenzie’s team quickly broke up following Richard Graham’s appointment, Thorn recognised changes needed to occur.
There were none bigger than freezing out Quade Cooper – the marvellous playmaker who had reinvigorated rugby in Queensland and, indeed, in across Australia but had also taken a number of missteps along the way, too.
Soon after he let James Slipper and Karmichael Hunt, a former teammate and someone he believes was one of the best players he ever played alongside in rugby league, go following off-field incidents.
Thorn took a tough line and controversial approach to his decision-making.
“There needed to be change at the club,” Thorn said.
“The thing I think about those decisions is probably at my least experienced I had to make my hardest decisions. Five years on I’ve had more experience, but at my least experienced I had to make some tough calls.
“But the club had been battling for about five years. The health of the club, the debt was in a bad way, it was tough going at the joint.
“I guess for the club to bring me on they saw some positive stuff, to be in that situation to bring me on, it was lean times. There needed to be change.
“With the drugs and stuff, I’ve got four kids of my own. What do they call it? Recreational drugs, and I know it’s rampant in society, but I think it’s not great for society.
“I don’t know if you know this, but my wife’s brother was a heroin addict. He lived on the streets and actually did time. He actually passed away in 2004. He got to a really good place. But there’s been an impact in my family. It ruined half his life. He got to a good space.
“I’ve seen what that sort of stuff can do and the role that I’m in I felt like I had to take a stand with that stuff. You had the media around that, but it was pretty cool having parents with kids around rugby saying I appreciate you making a stand on it with the kids.”
Brad Thorn said he took no pleasure in cutting some players adrift during his early years as head coach. Photo: Chris Hyde/Getty Images
All the while, Thorn took no pleasure in having to make change.
“I hate it. I hate making tough decisions, but I’ve taken on this role as a head coach and if you’re not prepared to make those decisions that need to be made, then don’t be the head coach.
“I’m not someone who likes drama. You know that saying, ‘if you want to be popular sell ice creams.’ Don’t be a head coach.
“Every week in a way you can be the bad guy because you’re telling some players that not everyone can play. It’s an ongoing thing. You don’t have to worry about it as a player. I guess I was fortunate, most of the time I was playing. It’s a solid part of it. You care, you have compassion and it’s not fun.
“The fun thing is a guy debuting or a guy who has played 50 games or playing really well. They’re the cool stuff. But with leadership, you have to make decisions for what you feel is right with the club and there’s a lot of due diligence about that.”
Another decision, which has drawn criticism, was allowing the Reds to let their hair down following their brilliant victory over the Brumbies in Brisbane that was played in front of 42,000.
The Reds celebrated for the entire weekend, but had to back up on the Friday and lost a crucial match against the Highlanders.
Their defeat led to an underwhelming crossover campaign against their trans-Tasman rivals, where injuries started to mount up and the pressure built.
Queensland Reds coach Brad Thorn said his side needed to celebrate their success in 2021. Photo: Jono Searle/Getty Images
But Thorn says he wouldn’t have done anything different and believes that in sport, drawing on his own experiences, not enough time is afforded to celebrate the wins along the way.
“I don’t think I’d change that because being a player, just for our group, there needed to be something,” he said.
“It couldn’t just be nothing and then just next week, there needed to be some sort of release and just taking a moment to enjoy it.
“A lot of times in my own career, winning Super Rugby and the next day I was in an All Black camp. I won a World Cup and a week later I was in Japan and two weeks later I was playing and lost a game in Japan and I’d just won a World Cup.
“I won a Super League in ’97 and a week later I was in New Zealand and I think we lost. Sometimes in those things you’re going why the heck did I even do this? You want some sort of acknowledgment and that was big for our group.
“It was tough to front the next week but there needed to be something.”
Thorn, who often wakes at 3am thinking about the next day’s work, says coaching is a completely different thing to playing because the responsibilities extend beyond the individual.
“I thank god for the strength of getting through those times because on the other side of that, which I haven’t talked about it, you’ve got your family and in my opinion that’s the No.1 job,” he said.
“I’ve got four kids. You’re trying to give four kids quality time, my wife’s my best friend, and if you’re feeling pressure, you try not to bring that home.
“But your kids, they’re playing all their sport and there’s kids and drop offs, but at the same time that’s one of the big challenges. There’s definitely times where you have these guilty moments where you feel you haven’t done that job the best you can. I imagine every parent has the same sort of feelings.”
This is the fourth of five in a series of extended chats with all coaches of the Australian Super Rugby franchises. Next up is Simon Cron of the Western Force. To listen to the others so far click on the players below, or find The Roar Rugby Podcast on your podcast app of choice.
